arcanelegacy (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
arcanelegacy) wrote2013-05-20 05:27 pm
arcanelegacy) wrote2013-05-20 05:27 pm
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Star Trek: Into Darkness
Welp. So this is my reaction post to Star Trek XII.
Please note that I came at this movie with intense reservations. I've been a fan of this series since I was very small, and given what I knew about the villain in this film, his actor, and the possible plot points Into Darkness might follow, I had VERY intense reservations. Those definitely reflect in my opinion of the film.
Spoilers to follow.
I will start off with this: I am no longer going to refer to this movie as Into Darkness.
No, it is now and forever shall be Wrath of Khan 2.0. Because that's exactly what it was. And for that, I am disappointed. As a fan of Trek, I am completely, 100% disappointed in this movie. I don't need WoK 2.0. I don't want it, I don't need it, and frankly I'd rather pretend it didn't exist because we already have WoK and 2.0 really didn't add anything to the idea.
Which sucks, because I feel like there was a lot going for the movie. It just got ruined by whatever executive meddling or creative decision that led to the direct rehash - at this point it's not even completely fair to call the end of this movie a reboot, because so little really changed from the original WoK.
I feel like the actors did amazingly, as they did in the first movie. I was, and still am, sold on their roles. For spiritual successors of the original cast they are amazing. AMAZING. I cannot pick a favorite amongst them. I just cannot. They all do SO WELL. They all have SO MUCH POTENTIAL to be awesome and badass and strong - so very, very strong. Uhura becoming a part of the main trio in a way the original show could never make her, because of censorship? YES GOOD. Sulu doing much of the same, and being cool and relaxed all at once? YES FUCKING PLEASE.
Pike's return was a wonderful thing. I loved him from the first movie and I loved him all the more in this one. I wept for him, but he was the only one. Scotty stole every scene he was in. Uhura got to let her linguistics skills shine, and let me tell you HOW FUCKING THRILLED I WAS TO SEE THAT. Sulu got to sit in the chair and be a dangerous, horrifying threat (further proving that PoC CAN PULL THE DANGEROUS VIBE OFF, WERE YOU TAKING NOTES JJ). The Klingons got a touch of a design upgrade AND I LIKED IT. I even loved the random tribble (seriously if the writers do anything going forward I want a tribble in every movie, even if it's just a cameo in the BG because that shit is gold).
But.
Because there is a HUGE ONE here:
After a point I felt like JJ and Co. were struggling to find a way to do something new with the idea for this movie, which is the only reason why Kirk and Spock traded roles in this film.
And just
Let me talk for a second about how much I HATED THAT.
I'll grant that maybe it meant something for people who are just now finding Star Trek and just now watching Star Trek and for whom the Reboot!Cast is their cast. I can see that, and I can see why the ending of WoK 2.0 would be moving and emotionally taut. I can even follow the logic that it made sense for this universe's Kirk to make that sacrifice to save his crew (because given the set up, it definitely made more sense for Kirk to do it than Spock, because this movie was ALL ABOUT KIRK with some of the other guys on the side). The movie was designed to make that scene possible. (I mean, holy fuck, from the second Khan's identity was revealed I KNEW WHERE THEY WERE GOING.)
But I've been a fan of Trek since I was a toddler. I grew up watching the films, and there are whole scenes in WoK I have memorized even though I go years between watches now. And with that in mind, the whole fucking idea of swapping out Kirk and Spock's roles and death scenes and...what, trying to play it off as innovative and startling?
NO.
No, because that isn't even a solid attempt at doing something new. Kirk's death played out almost point for point with Spock's in the ORIGINAL Wrath of Khan. LINES were even the same across the two films. Actions, cuts, staging, ALL SORTS OF LITTLE DETAILS were EXACTLY the same. This isn't new! And having seen it all before meant that this new version did absolutely NOTHING for me. There were no stakes. Kirk and Spock haven't been friends long enough in the AOS universe for that scene to mean nearly as much as the fifteen years of history Nimoy and Shatner had together by the time WoK came out.
Worse still, I knew Kirk was going to pull through. It was so painfully obvious that even as I was watching Pine do an admittedly wonderful job of being afraid of death, I wanted to laugh. Because I remembered that tribble from a few scenes earlier.
Kirk was gonna be okay.
And let me tell you, newfen, that if you go back and watch the TOS films, you might feel in your heart that Spock was gonna be just fine...
...but when that movie originally came out, no one knew that. No one knew that Spock was going to come back. For them, his death was final. Leonard Nimoy didn't want to be Spock anymore. He wanted to leave the role, and that meant killing Spock forever. That movie, and the excruciating wait in between it and the Search for Spock, meant that TOS fans NEEDED to mourn their friend.
Hell, they even had a funeral for Spock. You don't get much deader than that in TOS.
This movie didn't have that air of finality. While Pine and Quinto played it wonderfully, I was not moved by the scene in the slightest. (In fact, I laughed at Quinto's bellow of KHAAAAAN. I actually broke down at that point and laughed. Like an asshole. But, c'mon, the line was classic and classic Shatner at that. You can't ask anyone else to do it and not have it be seen as completely and utterly ridiculous.) Bottom line was, this was something that Kirk was gonna walk away from, and I knew that he was gonna be revived. There was no tension in it for me, no stakes, no fear. The only question I had and have is whether Kirk learned anything from this experience, and my guess is gonna be no. No, despite all of the setup and all of the drama.
I was so excited for this film when I first heard about it. I was so. Excited. Another installment in a wonderful new universe? With the awesome potential for NEW bad guys and NEW stories and NEW developments? FUCK YEAH, THIS IS AWESOME.
But no. I just...I do not understand why everyone did such a fine job setting the films up for new material and then just turned around and completely rehashed WoK. I get that WoK was and is one of the best Star Trek films ever made. But let it be, okay? Let that be something wonderful that exists in the TOS universe and doesn't necessarily make it over into AOS canon. (This is the part where I also rage at JJ Abrams for wanting his Trek to be the ONLY Trek, as if the generations and decades of previous material means utterly squat. Bro, respect. Without TOS and TNG and DS9 and VOY and ENT YOU WOULDN'T EVEN HAVE A UNIVERSE TO STEAL FROM, so stop.)
And, while I'm at it, why Khan? Why Benedict Cumberbatch?
This isn't to say that BC is a bad actor. He's not - he did wonderfully. His voice is perfect for that silky-smooth, dangerously intelligent, borderline sociopathic madman. I can see, having watched Sherlock, why he was considered for the role at all. But he wasn't Khan. He was not in any way, shape, or form Khan Noonien Singh, and I feel like all of the potential BC had as an actor was squandered in the way he was forced to portray what someone else had already done before.
I am angry that they chose a white actor for a part once played by a PoC. I feel it has horrifying implications across the board - up to and including the realization that a show filmed in the 1960s and 70s somehow managed to be more diverse in its casting than a movie made in 2013.
That frightens me. We're supposed to be getting better. And we're not. This wonderful vision that Gene Roddenberry had for the future is getting squandered by men who have NO idea what legacy they should be trying to living up to.
I am also angry because I feel like this movie didn't need to have Khan at all. I mentioned in the comments of my last post that I got more of a terroristic vibe from the trailers - that BC's John Harrison had once been wronged by Starfleet, somehow, and was going back after the entity in revenge. I had assumed his family had died, likely through Starfleet's neglect or through some poor decision or even malicious intent, and this film was that story.
And the thing is, I LIKE that idea. Starfleet has always been portrayed as this giant, infallible entity that perfected the art of being a governing body ages ago and is almost worshipped by those who follow its creed. But no entity is ever perfect, and the idea of having Kirk and Co. being forced to question what Starfleet itself stood for was compelling to me.
Alas, I might be relegated to turning that idea into fic, because this film was Wrath of Khan 2.0. And while I will give the writing a hat tip for doing well with introducing Khan in the new timeline and by going with at least SOME of the impressions I got from the trailer by making Admiral Marcus a slimy, war-mongering git that was willing to sacrifice Starfleet's ideals for his own goals, I am still vastly disappointed that they chose a white actor to take on the role of Khan. No skill on BC's part can make up for that failing on the part of the casting crew, not when they could have had BC play an equally dangerous NEW villain.
And none of this is to say that the movie didn't have its moments. It had many! The acting is superb, and let me fucking tell you how much I utterly loved Simon Pegg as Scotty and Zoe Saldana as Uhura (ESPECIALLY WHEN SHE STARTED SPEAKING KLINGON. OH, MAN. I WAS SO HYPED FOR THAT MOMENT). I respect if you liked the film; that's fine. For me, this was an insult, for you guys, it might be the best thing to ever come up on a big screen.
I just really, really hope they go for original work from here. No more rehashing. No more asking Spock!Prime for advice. Give me more new stuff, unique to THIS crew and THIS Enterprise and THIS universe. Then I will be happy. And if you do it often and well, maybe I'll be able to forget WoK 2.0 ever happened.
Please note that I came at this movie with intense reservations. I've been a fan of this series since I was very small, and given what I knew about the villain in this film, his actor, and the possible plot points Into Darkness might follow, I had VERY intense reservations. Those definitely reflect in my opinion of the film.
Spoilers to follow.
I will start off with this: I am no longer going to refer to this movie as Into Darkness.
No, it is now and forever shall be Wrath of Khan 2.0. Because that's exactly what it was. And for that, I am disappointed. As a fan of Trek, I am completely, 100% disappointed in this movie. I don't need WoK 2.0. I don't want it, I don't need it, and frankly I'd rather pretend it didn't exist because we already have WoK and 2.0 really didn't add anything to the idea.
Which sucks, because I feel like there was a lot going for the movie. It just got ruined by whatever executive meddling or creative decision that led to the direct rehash - at this point it's not even completely fair to call the end of this movie a reboot, because so little really changed from the original WoK.
I feel like the actors did amazingly, as they did in the first movie. I was, and still am, sold on their roles. For spiritual successors of the original cast they are amazing. AMAZING. I cannot pick a favorite amongst them. I just cannot. They all do SO WELL. They all have SO MUCH POTENTIAL to be awesome and badass and strong - so very, very strong. Uhura becoming a part of the main trio in a way the original show could never make her, because of censorship? YES GOOD. Sulu doing much of the same, and being cool and relaxed all at once? YES FUCKING PLEASE.
Pike's return was a wonderful thing. I loved him from the first movie and I loved him all the more in this one. I wept for him, but he was the only one. Scotty stole every scene he was in. Uhura got to let her linguistics skills shine, and let me tell you HOW FUCKING THRILLED I WAS TO SEE THAT. Sulu got to sit in the chair and be a dangerous, horrifying threat (further proving that PoC CAN PULL THE DANGEROUS VIBE OFF, WERE YOU TAKING NOTES JJ). The Klingons got a touch of a design upgrade AND I LIKED IT. I even loved the random tribble (seriously if the writers do anything going forward I want a tribble in every movie, even if it's just a cameo in the BG because that shit is gold).
But.
Because there is a HUGE ONE here:
After a point I felt like JJ and Co. were struggling to find a way to do something new with the idea for this movie, which is the only reason why Kirk and Spock traded roles in this film.
And just
Let me talk for a second about how much I HATED THAT.
I'll grant that maybe it meant something for people who are just now finding Star Trek and just now watching Star Trek and for whom the Reboot!Cast is their cast. I can see that, and I can see why the ending of WoK 2.0 would be moving and emotionally taut. I can even follow the logic that it made sense for this universe's Kirk to make that sacrifice to save his crew (because given the set up, it definitely made more sense for Kirk to do it than Spock, because this movie was ALL ABOUT KIRK with some of the other guys on the side). The movie was designed to make that scene possible. (I mean, holy fuck, from the second Khan's identity was revealed I KNEW WHERE THEY WERE GOING.)
But I've been a fan of Trek since I was a toddler. I grew up watching the films, and there are whole scenes in WoK I have memorized even though I go years between watches now. And with that in mind, the whole fucking idea of swapping out Kirk and Spock's roles and death scenes and...what, trying to play it off as innovative and startling?
NO.
No, because that isn't even a solid attempt at doing something new. Kirk's death played out almost point for point with Spock's in the ORIGINAL Wrath of Khan. LINES were even the same across the two films. Actions, cuts, staging, ALL SORTS OF LITTLE DETAILS were EXACTLY the same. This isn't new! And having seen it all before meant that this new version did absolutely NOTHING for me. There were no stakes. Kirk and Spock haven't been friends long enough in the AOS universe for that scene to mean nearly as much as the fifteen years of history Nimoy and Shatner had together by the time WoK came out.
Worse still, I knew Kirk was going to pull through. It was so painfully obvious that even as I was watching Pine do an admittedly wonderful job of being afraid of death, I wanted to laugh. Because I remembered that tribble from a few scenes earlier.
Kirk was gonna be okay.
And let me tell you, newfen, that if you go back and watch the TOS films, you might feel in your heart that Spock was gonna be just fine...
...but when that movie originally came out, no one knew that. No one knew that Spock was going to come back. For them, his death was final. Leonard Nimoy didn't want to be Spock anymore. He wanted to leave the role, and that meant killing Spock forever. That movie, and the excruciating wait in between it and the Search for Spock, meant that TOS fans NEEDED to mourn their friend.
Hell, they even had a funeral for Spock. You don't get much deader than that in TOS.
This movie didn't have that air of finality. While Pine and Quinto played it wonderfully, I was not moved by the scene in the slightest. (In fact, I laughed at Quinto's bellow of KHAAAAAN. I actually broke down at that point and laughed. Like an asshole. But, c'mon, the line was classic and classic Shatner at that. You can't ask anyone else to do it and not have it be seen as completely and utterly ridiculous.) Bottom line was, this was something that Kirk was gonna walk away from, and I knew that he was gonna be revived. There was no tension in it for me, no stakes, no fear. The only question I had and have is whether Kirk learned anything from this experience, and my guess is gonna be no. No, despite all of the setup and all of the drama.
I was so excited for this film when I first heard about it. I was so. Excited. Another installment in a wonderful new universe? With the awesome potential for NEW bad guys and NEW stories and NEW developments? FUCK YEAH, THIS IS AWESOME.
But no. I just...I do not understand why everyone did such a fine job setting the films up for new material and then just turned around and completely rehashed WoK. I get that WoK was and is one of the best Star Trek films ever made. But let it be, okay? Let that be something wonderful that exists in the TOS universe and doesn't necessarily make it over into AOS canon. (This is the part where I also rage at JJ Abrams for wanting his Trek to be the ONLY Trek, as if the generations and decades of previous material means utterly squat. Bro, respect. Without TOS and TNG and DS9 and VOY and ENT YOU WOULDN'T EVEN HAVE A UNIVERSE TO STEAL FROM, so stop.)
And, while I'm at it, why Khan? Why Benedict Cumberbatch?
This isn't to say that BC is a bad actor. He's not - he did wonderfully. His voice is perfect for that silky-smooth, dangerously intelligent, borderline sociopathic madman. I can see, having watched Sherlock, why he was considered for the role at all. But he wasn't Khan. He was not in any way, shape, or form Khan Noonien Singh, and I feel like all of the potential BC had as an actor was squandered in the way he was forced to portray what someone else had already done before.
I am angry that they chose a white actor for a part once played by a PoC. I feel it has horrifying implications across the board - up to and including the realization that a show filmed in the 1960s and 70s somehow managed to be more diverse in its casting than a movie made in 2013.
That frightens me. We're supposed to be getting better. And we're not. This wonderful vision that Gene Roddenberry had for the future is getting squandered by men who have NO idea what legacy they should be trying to living up to.
I am also angry because I feel like this movie didn't need to have Khan at all. I mentioned in the comments of my last post that I got more of a terroristic vibe from the trailers - that BC's John Harrison had once been wronged by Starfleet, somehow, and was going back after the entity in revenge. I had assumed his family had died, likely through Starfleet's neglect or through some poor decision or even malicious intent, and this film was that story.
And the thing is, I LIKE that idea. Starfleet has always been portrayed as this giant, infallible entity that perfected the art of being a governing body ages ago and is almost worshipped by those who follow its creed. But no entity is ever perfect, and the idea of having Kirk and Co. being forced to question what Starfleet itself stood for was compelling to me.
Alas, I might be relegated to turning that idea into fic, because this film was Wrath of Khan 2.0. And while I will give the writing a hat tip for doing well with introducing Khan in the new timeline and by going with at least SOME of the impressions I got from the trailer by making Admiral Marcus a slimy, war-mongering git that was willing to sacrifice Starfleet's ideals for his own goals, I am still vastly disappointed that they chose a white actor to take on the role of Khan. No skill on BC's part can make up for that failing on the part of the casting crew, not when they could have had BC play an equally dangerous NEW villain.
And none of this is to say that the movie didn't have its moments. It had many! The acting is superb, and let me fucking tell you how much I utterly loved Simon Pegg as Scotty and Zoe Saldana as Uhura (ESPECIALLY WHEN SHE STARTED SPEAKING KLINGON. OH, MAN. I WAS SO HYPED FOR THAT MOMENT). I respect if you liked the film; that's fine. For me, this was an insult, for you guys, it might be the best thing to ever come up on a big screen.
I just really, really hope they go for original work from here. No more rehashing. No more asking Spock!Prime for advice. Give me more new stuff, unique to THIS crew and THIS Enterprise and THIS universe. Then I will be happy. And if you do it often and well, maybe I'll be able to forget WoK 2.0 ever happened.
no subject
I was just...disappointed by the decision to go forward with having Khan as the villain. I do understand the decision, but I had so much hope for originality going into this one that I was bound to be disappointed in some way. I certainly don't begrudge those who do like it - I can totally see why it's worth enjoying! - but it didn't do much for me. Maybe the next film will!
BC did a fine job with the kind of role he was given. A damn fine job. He...he really felt like a predator in a cage the whole film. You look at him and he...on the surface he's not dangerous. On a base level, he's not dangerous. But when you start getting into the layers, you can see that not only is he dangerous, he's ruthless and cunning and so, so, SO much smarter than any other person alone (alone! And I love that the movie made it clear that defeating Khan took most of the Enterprise crew's wits combined. Kirk couldn't do it alone. Spock couldn't do it alone. But with help, with Sulu making threats and Bones being a fucking badass and Scotty being the best damned Engineer this side of anything, they did it).
I just wish it hadn't been Khan, I guess? There is room in AOS and even TOS for more dangerous villains like that, and I would have loved to have seen John Harrison BE that villain, with his own motivations and desires and backstory. I keep going back to this one thing that the film kinda toyed with - that Starfleet isn't always a shining beacon of all that's well and good with the galaxy. The film played with that through Marcus by making him a war-mongering asshole, but stopped right there to let Khan be the villain. I don't know that it really had to.
The character development was really this movie's highlight. I'm sad they kinda relegated Chekov off for half the movie, but I like that they gave Sulu the chair and you got to see more of Scotty (who, hands down, stole the show. WHY SO AMAZING, SIMON PEGG?). I agree wholeheartedly that the argument between Spock and Uhura in the shuttle was unprofessional, but I also think that trying to give them scenes elsewhere would slow the movies down considerably, so I'm kinda on the fence about that scene. I get it, but I don't like it, but I also don't have an alternative solution. :/
Ah, haha. I rolled my eyes so hard at Spock!Prime. Like, I get the need to have him cameo? Maybe? But Duuuuuuude you guys just established that Prime wasn't going to talk about the other timeline and BAM THERE HE GOES. Lol okay. I mean, then I wonder - what did Spock say? Did he tell Nu!Spock that HE DIED to bring Khan down? Or did he leave that detail out? BUT EVEN THEN WHAT DID HE SAY.
Yeah, and I think that's one of the good underlying reasons why I kinda knee-jerked away from this interpretation of the Death scene. There was no lingering sense of finality. There wasn't any fear Kirk might not pull through. They were too obvious with it. Seeing Khan heal the girl in the beginning made a bit more sense, IMO. It's easier to make sense of superhuman-healing than LOL DEATH WHAT'S THAT. The girl in the hospital wasn't dead yet, so I can see an infusion of Khan's blood helping heal her. But bringing him back from the dead? DUDE. At that point even freezing them all won't solve the problem. You need to freeze them AND THEN jettison them into a black hole. It does make sense that this universe's Kirk made that sacrifice, though, instead of this universe's Spock. It fit better. The acting was superb, as well - the scene that killed me, honestly, was watching Kirk react to Pike's death. You can see Pine's face crumple, but only AFTER watching him hold back tears. AUGH.
I also think they tried to shoehorn the friendship in a little hard a little fast. Last film was about establishing the grounds for it, and then in the first twenty minutes we can see that it's not a perfect friendship yet. Makes sense; they haven't known each other long enough for that kind of bond to form yet even though we know from STXI that they can and do work well together. But then we get the death scene, and their friendship is supposed to be so intense that Spock cries when Kirk passes away, when Spock didn't cry at any other major point? Where DID that bond come from? I think, if they really wanted to do Khan, they should have held off a while longer. I know, I know - second film, second film, there's some kind of magical bookending happening here - but the price was some of the scene's believability. (The acting still sold it, it's just hard to stay in that moment when you know it's...off.)
YEAH WHY WAS BONES NOT THERE. I THINK I HAD A LINE IN MY POST ORIGINALLY BUT IT SIDETRACKED TOO FAR SO I CUT IT, but WHERE WAS BONES. Bones is the other third of their OT3. Bones's friendship with Kirk is better defined by this point, so why didn't he also rush down to engineering to see his friend? ALSO HE'S A DOCTOR.
I liked Carol! I thought her scene of undress was utterly pointless, but I liked her. She was smart and direct. I also liked that Kirk didn't go straight in for the metaphorical kill with her. I hope she comes back.
I LIKE THE TRAIL. It's different? But the warp-trail seemed to change almost every movie in TOS so I don't mind it much. IT'S BLUE AND SPARKLY, THESE ARE MY PRIORITIES. :D
no subject
Anywho, back to my reply. Spock!Prime's response to nu!Spock's question is what's tripping me up. I really want to know what he said! I think, based on how ZQ played the scene when Scotty comm'd him from engineering, Prime must have told him that either Kirk or himself sacrificed themselves for the crew. Spock gets this terrified look on his face and just sprints, full tilt, down and out of the bridge. He knows what's happened. I think Prime was probably enigmatic enough not to give away exactly what happened in WoK, but yeah. What actually bothered me in the scene was the fact that Spock just took that call on the bridge. Seriously? Conference rooms, hello. Prime acted as a bond between new Spock and Jim. It was their funny little secret. And when Spock is just blatantly all up on the bridge in front of God and everyone like, Hey Spock, it's Spock, and it just ruins it.
Carol Marcus nakey scene was weird. It didn't need to happen. I think J.J. was trying to get across that Kirk and Marcus have an attraction, throwback to TOS, but no. You don't need to have her in her underoos to play that up. I wasn't enormously bothered by it, but the scene just didn't have continuity. I'm actually shipping Bones/Carol lol. Bones just throws on that southern charm (as a native Texan can I just squee about how GOOD THAT SOUTHERN DRAWL IS??) steady hands tee hee and even does a little bow legged saunter up to her before they work on disabling the missile. Ahh it was so cute. I hope Carol comes back too! Though, I think that it'll be difficult to fit her in without making her a love interest. There's just not enough screen time for the main cast + Carol. She'll have to be combined with another character's plot and development. I'm not too fussed with it, so long as they get Uhura right, but I do hope that we get to have Nurse Chapel again! I loved Carol referencing her hahah oh Jim, you're kind of a jerk sometimes.
eta: I apologize for all these edits, I'm blowing up your inbox but really regret nothing ;) I forgot to reply to what you said about Khan and his crew, which I found really interesting! You're totally right. If Khan's cells were powerful enough to bring Jim back from death (or the brink of death), there is no way that just freezing the super-humans would just stop them from being a problem. I'm studying Cancer Biology right now so I'm very fascinated by Khan's cells and how he (and his crew) could possibly be destroyed. I've concluded that the only way to wipe them out is biological warfare. I think that would have been a fascinating tangent to the film. It's controversial and extremely unethical, which is what STXII was really about in regards to Admiral Marcus and his war. Khan could really only be destroyed if his cells were introduced to a mutagen, a virus, that hyper accelerated his oncagenes and wiped out his tumor suppressors. This wouldn't even be a lengthy process. If the mutagen took and Khan's body didn't grow/evolve to kill these mutagenic cells, the rate at which his cells recreate would take him down almost instantaneously. As cool as watching Spock beat the ever loving snot out of Khan, and Uhura stun him into next week, it felt a little pointless. Seriously, it barely phased him. He just sort of passed out in the end lol. I wanted to see ~science (after all Trek is sci-fi) be used to defeat the bad guy. Science did defeat "death", but it didn't take Khan down. :/